Mary went off the deep end a little there. Kudos to Robb for reaching out, especially with a personal email, and phone #. The poison is always in the dose.
You got it right when you wrote Wired to Eat. Everyone’s body is different and has different needs. I bought your book. It’s dog-eared, highlighted, and has bits of paper sticking out everywhere to mark something important. I tried carnivore and hated it. I like vegetables and shouldn’t have to hide this from the community. Testing to see the BG response to foods is the most helpful. By using a CGM, a game changer, I found out I get the same BG spike from sweet potatoes as I did from a can of coke. I would never have known this as they are touted as healthy, and they are for many people. What I am saying in a disjointed way is we should respect people’s decisions to know what their body needs and how to keep it healthy. It may be different than the way you do it. I certainly hope it is because we aren’t exactly the same. Stop trying to put everyone in 1 silo and don’t chase away people that are experimenting with different approaches and trying to get back to health.
Robb, great post. I think the polarization around nutrition stems from how our brains are wired to ‘choose sides.’ When it comes to something as crucial as diet, being ‘right’ can feel like a survival instinct—people fear the potential consequences of being wrong, like developing chronic illness, and that fear fuels the intensity of debates. Add to that the growing distrust around hidden agendas (especially with the rise of fake meats), and it’s no wonder people are paranoid.
That said, the conversation often misses the mark by ignoring bio-individuality. Some genetics thrive on a plant-heavy diet, while others don’t. It’s like taking a Tylenol for a headache—if it works for me, I can’t assume everyone else should take Tylenol too. Diets may remove symptoms, but they often reveal more about the body’s dis-eased state than any ultimate nutritional ‘truth.’ I love that you continue to approach this with critical thinking, simply ‘leaning’ in a direction while staying fluid and open as the science evolves. That mindset is so refreshing in today’s landscape.
Absolutely, the algorithms of confirmation of our little thought and opinion bubbles!! Sadly, when you (of all people, a rare commodity of critical thought) chose stop posting and engaging, you do the world a disservice. In 2012 I changed my life because I read one of your books. Your impact matters. I say this as a reminder to myself too because disengaging feels easier and somehow more peaceful, but it doesn’t seem like the right thing. ♥️
This is well put. Thanks Robb. Been fighting this same thinking with clients for a while now. Fruits and veggies being full wrapped up in the WEF is a real mind bender to me.
Yes, carnivores have become just as dogmatic as vegans, arguably worse in many cases I've seen. I could rehash all you said but you already said it, so I'll leave it there.
I agree with your perspective. Even hacky, wacky Joe Mercola is letting some carbs into his ideal diet. With a Greek wife and a home in Greece south of Athens, I appreciate the traditional Mediterranean diet. To each his or her own!
What about keto for cancer? I have been hearing that by many doctors. My husband has Stage 4 RCC and I’m torn between strict therapeutic keto and a Meditation diet with complex carbohydrates allowed. It keeps me up at night because this is so important.
Ah Jennifer...this is awful, I'm so sorry y'all are going through this. There are a million ways to tackle these things, I have to say that iff these were me, I'd be ALL IN on a ketogenic diet as adjunctive therapy. Not all cancers directly benefit from reduced glucose intake and availability, but what is often overlooked is the ketogenic state makes normal cells far more resilient to chemo and radiation. It tends to put an oxidative pressure on the cancer. I'd dig into Thomas Seyffrieds work on Cancer as a Metabolic disease. Nasha Winters is a practitioner that is well versed in implementing all this stuff. Please keep me posted. https://youtu.be/0OgWi1H-2Zs?si=Gx11807fsXkh4bvS
Correct me please if I am wrong but I believe that goes in all directions not only vegans or carnivores/ketonians like the seed oil crowd for example (to which rants of you I completely agree and I have argued a lot as we consume plenty of pork here in the Mediterranean) and of course the hyper fixation crowds to find faults in low carb studies and approaches etc Having said that it is appalling and I have been appalled also here in Greece in some Greek keto Facebook groups, not only with the dogmatism but also with the misinformation (like using this one weak study that shows damage if you cheat after one week on keto), I had literally people messaging me and asking if they are gonna die because they ate some fruit so yeah it has been become kinda ridiculous. It’s kinda sad because it might steer people away from the work and approaches from people like Dr Chris Palmer for serious conditions.
Agreed, with some exceptions claiming you can’t gain weight on carbs with the absence of seed oils 😎 Fortunately there are some sane voices like yourself and Nick Norwitz, highely appreciated and gives the rest of us folks a glimmer of hope!
I see the same regilious carnivore people here in Brazil, judging our traditional and historically health food into demons. Nobody get sick eating fruits (and eventually rice + beans, the brazilian staples) but yes ultraprocessed trash synthetic food
Unfortunately, nutrition seems to be very much like politics and religion, as people tend to get dogmatically attached to one and only one perspective.
I think that we'd be able to navigate the subject better if we generally understood more of the differences between types of fruits, like the sugar content, as well as types of vegetables, as Teri Wahls delineates in her Wahls Protocol.
However, most of us don't know or understand much about those categories like FODmaps and nightshades, where certain fruits & vegetables can give certain problems to some people while others can thrive on them.
As Robb mentioned, to each their own (healthy pathway), but that's more difficult than being dogmatic about just not eating X or Y. Ever.
Additionally, as a gym owner & someone who works with clients' general health habits (and lack thereof), I believe we often leave out other, extremely important aspects of leading a healthy lifestyle, like exercise, sun exposure (Dr. Jack Kruse actually prioritizes light exposure ABOVE nutrition) and sleep hygiene as well as other recovery habits, and being around a supportive community.
On a separate note, Kruse briefly mentioned you, Robb, in a recent Danny Jones podcast with him, Dr. Mary Talley Bowden and Calley Means, which made me wonder if y'all had spoken recently, as he seemed to think your primary health concern was removing gluten from our diets. This made wonder about his impression of your overall approach - have y'all had any recent discussions?
Jack is both brilliant and a moron. I was talking about the importance of circadian biology a decade before Jack arrived on the scene...Here is one from 2005: https://www.performancemenu.com/article/32/Go-To-Bed/
AND I'll find you examples of me suggesting circadian biology is more important than food, again, before Jack. The difference is I've worked directly with lots and lots of people.From our gym to SEALS pre-post deployment, and although circadian biology is primary, it's also not the lever everyone can most easily modify.
Jack is a narsicist and a borderline personality, so he's incapable of articulating these distinctions.
Speaking of circadian biology, I worked with Franz Halberg at the University of Minnesota decades ago. He singlehandedly started the field of chronobiology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Halberg
I remember hearing you discuss the importance of circadian rhythm at Paleo f/x around 2010 (& several years afterwards - weren't you on a panel with him?), which is why I was curious.
He's definitely abrasive as hell, but I still think y'all could have an interesting discussion on light, water, etc., if personalities don't get in the way of information exchange, lol.
I’ve noticed the smaller and more fringe a movement is, with some tiny subset of the population interested in it, the more the members want to call one another out for not doing things according to “the one true way.” I’ve seen this dynamic at work in the primitive skills and psychedelic spaces and it is so frustrating and ridiculous.
People are very brave and divisive on and from their phones. This sort of hardline thinking prevails politically as well, and it’s one of the reasons why we can’t have nice things.
Mary went off the deep end a little there. Kudos to Robb for reaching out, especially with a personal email, and phone #. The poison is always in the dose.
You got it right when you wrote Wired to Eat. Everyone’s body is different and has different needs. I bought your book. It’s dog-eared, highlighted, and has bits of paper sticking out everywhere to mark something important. I tried carnivore and hated it. I like vegetables and shouldn’t have to hide this from the community. Testing to see the BG response to foods is the most helpful. By using a CGM, a game changer, I found out I get the same BG spike from sweet potatoes as I did from a can of coke. I would never have known this as they are touted as healthy, and they are for many people. What I am saying in a disjointed way is we should respect people’s decisions to know what their body needs and how to keep it healthy. It may be different than the way you do it. I certainly hope it is because we aren’t exactly the same. Stop trying to put everyone in 1 silo and don’t chase away people that are experimenting with different approaches and trying to get back to health.
Enjoying a salad should not be a crime!
Robb, great post. I think the polarization around nutrition stems from how our brains are wired to ‘choose sides.’ When it comes to something as crucial as diet, being ‘right’ can feel like a survival instinct—people fear the potential consequences of being wrong, like developing chronic illness, and that fear fuels the intensity of debates. Add to that the growing distrust around hidden agendas (especially with the rise of fake meats), and it’s no wonder people are paranoid.
That said, the conversation often misses the mark by ignoring bio-individuality. Some genetics thrive on a plant-heavy diet, while others don’t. It’s like taking a Tylenol for a headache—if it works for me, I can’t assume everyone else should take Tylenol too. Diets may remove symptoms, but they often reveal more about the body’s dis-eased state than any ultimate nutritional ‘truth.’ I love that you continue to approach this with critical thinking, simply ‘leaning’ in a direction while staying fluid and open as the science evolves. That mindset is so refreshing in today’s landscape.
I think the social media algorithms play this up too. It's made me not want to past the past few years, but not quite ready to hang up my spurs!
Absolutely, the algorithms of confirmation of our little thought and opinion bubbles!! Sadly, when you (of all people, a rare commodity of critical thought) chose stop posting and engaging, you do the world a disservice. In 2012 I changed my life because I read one of your books. Your impact matters. I say this as a reminder to myself too because disengaging feels easier and somehow more peaceful, but it doesn’t seem like the right thing. ♥️
This is well put. Thanks Robb. Been fighting this same thinking with clients for a while now. Fruits and veggies being full wrapped up in the WEF is a real mind bender to me.
Yes, carnivores have become just as dogmatic as vegans, arguably worse in many cases I've seen. I could rehash all you said but you already said it, so I'll leave it there.
"Y'all clearly do whatever the hell you want to ...." :)
I could hear the frustration in his voice reading this :)
Always appreciate how passionately you care. Love your contents.
I agree with your perspective. Even hacky, wacky Joe Mercola is letting some carbs into his ideal diet. With a Greek wife and a home in Greece south of Athens, I appreciate the traditional Mediterranean diet. To each his or her own!
Hear hear!
Good job, Robb.
What about keto for cancer? I have been hearing that by many doctors. My husband has Stage 4 RCC and I’m torn between strict therapeutic keto and a Meditation diet with complex carbohydrates allowed. It keeps me up at night because this is so important.
Ah Jennifer...this is awful, I'm so sorry y'all are going through this. There are a million ways to tackle these things, I have to say that iff these were me, I'd be ALL IN on a ketogenic diet as adjunctive therapy. Not all cancers directly benefit from reduced glucose intake and availability, but what is often overlooked is the ketogenic state makes normal cells far more resilient to chemo and radiation. It tends to put an oxidative pressure on the cancer. I'd dig into Thomas Seyffrieds work on Cancer as a Metabolic disease. Nasha Winters is a practitioner that is well versed in implementing all this stuff. Please keep me posted. https://youtu.be/0OgWi1H-2Zs?si=Gx11807fsXkh4bvS
Correct me please if I am wrong but I believe that goes in all directions not only vegans or carnivores/ketonians like the seed oil crowd for example (to which rants of you I completely agree and I have argued a lot as we consume plenty of pork here in the Mediterranean) and of course the hyper fixation crowds to find faults in low carb studies and approaches etc Having said that it is appalling and I have been appalled also here in Greece in some Greek keto Facebook groups, not only with the dogmatism but also with the misinformation (like using this one weak study that shows damage if you cheat after one week on keto), I had literally people messaging me and asking if they are gonna die because they ate some fruit so yeah it has been become kinda ridiculous. It’s kinda sad because it might steer people away from the work and approaches from people like Dr Chris Palmer for serious conditions.
Absolutely...but it's telling the most insufferable of the seed oil folks are generally also keto/carnivore!
Agreed, with some exceptions claiming you can’t gain weight on carbs with the absence of seed oils 😎 Fortunately there are some sane voices like yourself and Nick Norwitz, highely appreciated and gives the rest of us folks a glimmer of hope!
I see the same regilious carnivore people here in Brazil, judging our traditional and historically health food into demons. Nobody get sick eating fruits (and eventually rice + beans, the brazilian staples) but yes ultraprocessed trash synthetic food
Carnivore is a great tool but my goodness, the folks doing it can be more closed minded than raw vegans!!
Yes! A much better tool than plant based diets, but its not the miracle solution for every human problem.
cool
Unfortunately, nutrition seems to be very much like politics and religion, as people tend to get dogmatically attached to one and only one perspective.
I think that we'd be able to navigate the subject better if we generally understood more of the differences between types of fruits, like the sugar content, as well as types of vegetables, as Teri Wahls delineates in her Wahls Protocol.
However, most of us don't know or understand much about those categories like FODmaps and nightshades, where certain fruits & vegetables can give certain problems to some people while others can thrive on them.
As Robb mentioned, to each their own (healthy pathway), but that's more difficult than being dogmatic about just not eating X or Y. Ever.
Additionally, as a gym owner & someone who works with clients' general health habits (and lack thereof), I believe we often leave out other, extremely important aspects of leading a healthy lifestyle, like exercise, sun exposure (Dr. Jack Kruse actually prioritizes light exposure ABOVE nutrition) and sleep hygiene as well as other recovery habits, and being around a supportive community.
On a separate note, Kruse briefly mentioned you, Robb, in a recent Danny Jones podcast with him, Dr. Mary Talley Bowden and Calley Means, which made me wonder if y'all had spoken recently, as he seemed to think your primary health concern was removing gluten from our diets. This made wonder about his impression of your overall approach - have y'all had any recent discussions?
That'd make a great interview/podcast!
Jack is both brilliant and a moron. I was talking about the importance of circadian biology a decade before Jack arrived on the scene...Here is one from 2005: https://www.performancemenu.com/article/32/Go-To-Bed/
AND I'll find you examples of me suggesting circadian biology is more important than food, again, before Jack. The difference is I've worked directly with lots and lots of people.From our gym to SEALS pre-post deployment, and although circadian biology is primary, it's also not the lever everyone can most easily modify.
Jack is a narsicist and a borderline personality, so he's incapable of articulating these distinctions.
Speaking of circadian biology, I worked with Franz Halberg at the University of Minnesota decades ago. He singlehandedly started the field of chronobiology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Halberg
I remember hearing you discuss the importance of circadian rhythm at Paleo f/x around 2010 (& several years afterwards - weren't you on a panel with him?), which is why I was curious.
He's definitely abrasive as hell, but I still think y'all could have an interesting discussion on light, water, etc., if personalities don't get in the way of information exchange, lol.
I’ve noticed the smaller and more fringe a movement is, with some tiny subset of the population interested in it, the more the members want to call one another out for not doing things according to “the one true way.” I’ve seen this dynamic at work in the primitive skills and psychedelic spaces and it is so frustrating and ridiculous.
People are very brave and divisive on and from their phones. This sort of hardline thinking prevails politically as well, and it’s one of the reasons why we can’t have nice things.